tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5021346565171482910.post2052977719956541983..comments2023-05-26T10:55:27.696-04:00Comments on Jc_Freak: The Foolishness of GodJc_Freak:http://www.blogger.com/profile/14780031497091443526noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5021346565171482910.post-11946289423170283142009-05-12T14:32:00.000-04:002009-05-12T14:32:00.000-04:00I think I might have some useful observations rega...I think I might have some useful observations regarding this "foolishness" here. (Which I do agree is often misused any time someone uses logic to draw a conclusion that Orthodoxy does not like).<br /><br />The "foolishness" here needs to be understood within the context of Second Temple Judaism. The Jews [ALL JEWS, not just the Pharisees] foresaw a savior who would be King and save them from the Romans [or whoever was oppressing them at the time.]<br /><br />What they did not expect was that their king would die. That notion is unfathomable. The reason it is "foolishness" is not "it is odd that God would die for me." The focus is not on the sacrifice, but the death itself. The idea that the King of Israel would die makes no sense because it did not fit any of the paradigms of the resurrection believed at the time.<br /><br />The Greeks [and more or less everyone else other than Jews] did not believe in a bodily resurrection at all. The Jews debated it amongst each other, but the understanding was that (if there were a resurrection) it would occur all at one time. Everyone (or, depending on which group you were in, perhaps only the righteous of Israel'spast) would be resurrected at one time, either to create the Messianic Kingdom or to partake in it.<br /><br />No one foresaw the <I>individual</I> resurrection of Christ, and hence when Christ was killed, everyone <I>including His disciples</I> thought the gig was up. The idea that the King of Israel would die and only then enter into His Monarchy was utter silliness.<br /><br />And that is why "Christ Crucified" [literally "The anointed Crucified" which is really "The King Crucified" (The word "Christ" or "The anointed" was used to refer to the Jewish Kings (and sometimes the priests) throughout Jewish history.]<br />made no sense. How could the King die? How could Jesus save Israel if He was dead?<br /><br />That is why the whole thing is foolishness. Not the notion that God would create a plan wherein the Almighty would sacrifice God's only begotten son....but rather the bizarre idea that the King of Israel would die.<br /><br />[this is not to suggest Jesus was not a sacrifice...it is just meant to refocus the context here on 2nd Temple Judaism and how they saw Christ and the purpose of the Messiah, etc.]David Rudelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10513172651895503104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5021346565171482910.post-61515317084849136692009-05-05T10:01:00.000-04:002009-05-05T10:01:00.000-04:00My fundamental point was that God's motivation in ...My fundamental point was that God's motivation in sending His Son was love rather than logic or antilogic, which I something I think a lot of people who propose the other interpretation are thinking, mostly because they haven't escaped the meta-narrative of modernity.<br /><br />However Dan, you've nailed Paul's point right on the head. That is precisely Paul's point here. We shouldn't treasure sophistry as the primary means of understanding reality. God is more practical than that.Jc_Freak:https://www.blogger.com/profile/14780031497091443526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5021346565171482910.post-84608352591096748012009-05-04T14:00:00.000-04:002009-05-04T14:00:00.000-04:00I agree completely, Martin. Reason and wisdom are...I agree completely, Martin. Reason and wisdom aren't wrong and to be avoided, they simply must be kept subordinated to the Spirit of Christ. Seen in their proper priority, they are vital tools.<br /><br />I would frame it that we ought not go out of our way to appear foolish or unschooled, but on the other hand we should not fear to appear foolish if that's the outcome of faithful discipleship. Nor do I have a problem with the fact that "the world" seems some of what Jesus said as quite wise, even as the resurrection seems totally foolish.Dan Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01635080266346679464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5021346565171482910.post-53322769395879857682009-05-01T09:54:00.000-04:002009-05-01T09:54:00.000-04:00I remember what one of my professors said once. A ...I remember what one of my professors said once. A women at church once came up to him and said, "I don't need theology, I just need to know that Jesus died for me and was raised again". Then he would get a smile and his face, turn to us with a clenched hand and say, "That <I>is</I> theology!"Jc_Freak:https://www.blogger.com/profile/14780031497091443526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5021346565171482910.post-13630162269869608692009-05-01T08:10:00.000-04:002009-05-01T08:10:00.000-04:00"in our theological pursuits we should never lose ..."in our theological pursuits we should never lose sight of the heart."<br /><br />Which, unfortunately, is very easy to do. <br />The anti-intellectualism of some in the faith is very frustrating for me. <br />Yes, I acknowledge that there is a lot more than the intellectual side of things, but that doesn’t make it unimportant. <br />The same people who say things like “seminary is a cemetery” tend to also have a faith that is grounded less in the Bible and more in unexamined pop-theology. <br />There is a place for academic study, it just can’t be the goal in and of itself.Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12865044615971862266noreply@blogger.com